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Post by throbak on Feb 2, 2016 15:57:16 GMT -5
You go to on a canned hunt to kill And pay by the inch You go to a pay lake to pay for a trophy someone else has caught and put it in a small pond for you to catch and bust the jar (gambling) For the Money truth hurts doesn't it You saying people don't do it for the money ?? And ego driven urges to kill the biggest ? Pay lakes and high fence isn't there just for the fun of it LOL SMH
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Post by steiny on Feb 2, 2016 15:58:33 GMT -5
Man I can't believe how worked up people get over this subject. Have never done the high fence deer hunt thing, but I've done put & take birds and pay pond trout. It was fun, but not very sporting or challenging, probably won't go back. I'm sure deer in a 400 acre wooded enclosure would be similar. I don't see one being any worse than the other, so why is one OK and another not OK?
Don't participate if you don't like it, but like it or not things are heading this way. Not much of it in Indiana yet, but there are some really big, elaborate, expensive "hunting estates" in neighboring states. One in Michigan called The Sanctuary is kind of the poster child for high fenced deer hunting. They've got all of the clients they want. Also understand that many of the big African safari operations are in huge high fence enclosures, as are some very large Texas deer hunting operations.
By the same note, there is some rather unsporting perfectly legal "fair chase" hunting going on. How about prairie dog or ground hog shooting? I've shot a half dozen antelope and just about all of them involved no more than driving a round a ranch, spotting a herd, then getting out of the truck and shooting one. This is pretty normal, accepted antelope hunting. My grandpa always considered squirrel hunting with a shotgun unsporting, I kind of agree. Peeling a whole bunch of spawning bluegills off their nest isn't exactly too challenging either.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, but just don't see the "pure evil" in high fence deer hunting that some conjure up.
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Post by featherduster on Feb 2, 2016 16:02:22 GMT -5
I would like to get my $00.02 in before this thread gets locked. I have no problem with high fence as we call them operations as long as the game they offer is grown and raised by them and not wild animals caught and released to be hunted.
Just about everyone one of us has hunted game birds at release farms and we don't find that offensive. A lot of folks visit paid fishing lakes and I have no problem with that what I do have a problem with is them using wild caught fish to stock these lakes.
I enjoy hunting state owned properties that have paid pheasant releases and I don't have any problem with that because the released birds are pen raised and if a bird is lucky enough to avoid getting shot there is a slim possibility it might survive and become a free ranging animal. So if some one wants to step into a pen and shoot a deer so be it but don't call yourself a dear hunter.
Several years ago a friend of mine bought a Buffalo from a man who wanted out of the business of raising Buffalo. My friend shot the animal in the pen and then field dressed it and took it home to butcher it. At first it was hard for me to except this idea then I had to ask myself how would you kill and butcher this animal and then I learned to except this idea because there was no other alternative and after all the meat was excellent and the price was right. You can pay for sex or you can get it going the fair chase method just don't call yourself a DON JUAN if you pay for it.
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Post by jjas on Feb 2, 2016 16:22:29 GMT -5
We can act as if deer hunting hasn't changed that much over the years, but the reality is it's a trophy driven industry and generates HUGE dollars.....
And as much as I'm not a fan of deer farms and high fence hunting, I'm not going to pretend that they are not growing industries as it's obvious that many people are more than willing to spend HUGE money to kill a trophy buck.
That's the reality......
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Post by chubwub on Feb 2, 2016 16:22:49 GMT -5
There are fair chase, 100% wild animal leases where you pay extra for banded waterfowl you kill or also pay by the inch for antlers and points. Canned hunting operators are far from the only people who are in the hunting business for the money. Look how many people pay for guides and outfitters on public lands to kill trophies. Basically the same thing no? You are literally paying someone else to do all the scouting work for you and put you on a trophy animal that you can shoot.
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Post by tynimiller on Feb 2, 2016 16:30:25 GMT -5
There are fair chase, 100% wild animal leases where you pay extra for banded waterfowl you kill or also pay by the inch for antlers and points. Canned hunting operators are far from the only people who are in the hunting business for the money. Look how many people pay for guides and outfitters on public lands to kill trophies. Basically the same thing no? You are literally paying someone else to do all the scouting work for you and put you on a trophy animal that you can shoot. I get the point but disagree with the end. Even going to a small sub lease owned by the outfitter you are paying of say just 300 acres, is not the same as hunting an entirely enclosed 300 acres. I mean I could walk the 300 acres in search of the exact deer I was paying for in less than 3 or 4 hours....and if I'm using a gun I would probably get bored waiting on the owner's to pull up in their Kubota to help me load my "trophy". Just to be clear I don't see personally an issue with them operating if they operate legally, report appropriate taxes (fair despite hating them) and don't claim to be the same as free range hunting.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 2, 2016 16:49:56 GMT -5
Years ago, before I thought about hunting, I saw Travis Tritt go on a buffalo hunt. They road on horse right up to the buffalo and he shot it. It did not try to escape, nor did the herd.
Even then, I thought, "That's not hunting."
Now, I do enjoy shooting things. LOL I have found that I really enjoy finding a coon in a trap, so I can shoot it. I just like it. The meat doesn't go to waste, and my deer corn last a lot longer.
I even like to shoot the opossums, but really don't like to touch it afterwords.
All this said, if I had a BUNCH of money, I'd pay to get behind some big fence. I'd eat it too, and I just don't care what anyone would call it, canned meat??? I wouldn't care. Would I consider it hunting? No, but I'd still have fun shooting something that I'd otherwise not get the chance.
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Post by jjas on Feb 2, 2016 16:56:12 GMT -5
tynimiller
With all due respect, I would imagine that the owners/operators of these places (and likely the patrons) probably don't really care what "joe average" hunter thinks of them. I'm pretty sure the owners feel that they provide a service and the patrons just want a head for the wall.
JonSnow
I admire your honesty and imagine that there are a whole lot more people who would utilize these places than want to admit it.....
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Post by throbak on Feb 2, 2016 17:00:18 GMT -5
That pretty much sums it up John a honest description of what it is Remember I said it but one day that will all change I didn't coin this phrase but it fits One day you will kill in order to have hunted ,,Not hunt to kill. There is a difference
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 2, 2016 17:38:57 GMT -5
I actually appreciate the sentiment of protecting the spirit and challenge of hunting. We can look at the opinions of different subject over the history of our country to see how things are accepted in time, but vigorously opposed initially.
How did this happen? It happens over time, new generations, the lack of passing on the traditions, teaching and "moral values" in a general expression.
Some issues take more time to become accepted, but none of it makes it right, depending on the subject.
Just a recent example would be the crossbow, and you all know this better than me.
Personally, I have found that I enjoy ALL the off-season preparation work as much as the hunting. I still do not feel that very often do I find myself hunting. I'm usually just sitting and waiting. I can't do much more than this, but I'll take it.
However, I'm sitting and waiting in a place that I have thought about and planned for. The trophy and gratification is sweet mostly because of the work that I've put in it. I can only imagine the JOY of shooting a tom on my food plot property after all the work I have done and plan to do. This is what makes it sweet for me.
EVEN if I had a bunch of money and went on a few fenced hunts, it couldn't compare to reaping the rewards of all the pre-hunt work.
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Post by tynimiller on Feb 2, 2016 17:45:28 GMT -5
tynimiller With all due respect, I would imagine that the owners/operators of these places (and likely the patrons) probably don't really care what "joe average" hunter thinks of them. I'm pretty sure the owners feel that they provide a service and the patrons just want a head for the wall. JonSnow I admire your honesty and imagine that there are a whole lot more people who would utilize these places than want to admit it..... Oh I know they don't and wouldn't expect them too...so I guess wanting them to see themselves differently is a stretch, but so long as the state or the DNR never meshes the two.
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Post by tynimiller on Feb 2, 2016 17:47:22 GMT -5
EVEN if I had a bunch of money and went on a few fenced hunts, it couldn't compare to reaping the rewards of all the pre-hunt work. THIS!!!!!!!! Sadly though, most people that hunt on those preserves don't even realize this..and never will.
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Post by jjas on Feb 2, 2016 18:17:11 GMT -5
Jon Snow
You raise a good point and one that I've made to many people over the years. I truly do enjoy the work that goes into deer hunting.
Having said that....there are plenty of other folks who either lack the time, the land or the drive to bother with that and would just as soon write a check, and sit in a stand picked out and installed by someone else on managed ground.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 2, 2016 18:51:28 GMT -5
Jon Snow You raise a good point and one that I've made to many people over the years. I truly do enjoy the work that goes into deer hunting. Having said that....there are plenty of other folks who either lack the time, the land or the drive to bother with that and would just as soon write a check, and sit in a stand picked out and installed by someone else on managed ground. Absolutely! This has been my opinion from the beginning. There are lots of busy people doing valuable things for their families, our country or our faith. These people may have more money than time, and can't enjoy this wonder sport like others can. I would not have the time now if I hadn't suffered this heart damage, so I've chosen to be thankful for the damage and the time I have left. From the time my daughter was born until she was about 10, I'm not sure that I watched one movie. Trying to care for her, work and deal with life, heck, I didn't have time to watch a hunting show. What an amazing treat it would have been had I gotten a weekend escape inside a big fence. I'm making up for those years now until the day I'm finished with this body.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 2, 2016 18:53:25 GMT -5
I'd say that 90% of high fence hunters hunt free range just like us. They put in just as much time, scouting and effort as the rest of us. The main difference is they have the "extra" money to spend on a hunt I'd they want. And the majority of these hunts are $1,500 to $4,000. A lot of people spend that on leases or vactions, these guys just do it on hunting.
If these places do it legally, ethically and without interfering with traditional hunting it's their business. There are a lot more important things to lose sleep over today than whether a guy is hunting behind high fence. There is a very important election going on in case you have not noticed, that will actually effect your life and your children's life.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 2, 2016 18:55:10 GMT -5
I'd say that 90% of high fence hunters hunt free range just like us. They put in just as much time, scouting and effort as the rest of us. The main difference is they have the "extra" money to spend on a hunt I'd they want. And the majority of these hunts are $1,500 to $4,000. A lot of people spend that on leases or vactions, these guys just do it on hunting. If these places do it legally, ethically and without interfering with traditional hunting it's their business. There are a lot more important things to lose sleep over today than whether a guy is hunting behind high fence. There is a very important election going on in case you have not noticed, that will actually effect your life and your children's life. I'm multitasking now ...writing about hunting while listening to FOX.
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Post by throbak on Feb 2, 2016 19:26:39 GMT -5
..there are plenty of other folks who either lack the time, the land or the drive to bother with that and would just as soon write a check, and sit in a stand picked out and installed by someone else on managed ground. THOSE ARE THE KILLERS NOT THE HUNTERS Starting to see the difference now??
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Post by jjas on Feb 2, 2016 19:33:56 GMT -5
..there are plenty of other folks who either lack the time, the land or the drive to bother with that and would just as soon write a check, and sit in a stand picked out and installed by someone else on managed ground. THOSE ARE THE KILLERS NOT THE HUNTERS Starting to see the difference now?? I've always seen the difference, but some people don't care what others think and figure if it's legal and their money, why should they care what anyone else thinks....
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Feb 2, 2016 19:42:04 GMT -5
..there are plenty of other folks who either lack the time, the land or the drive to bother with that and would just as soon write a check, and sit in a stand picked out and installed by someone else on managed ground. THOSE ARE THE KILLERS NOT THE HUNTERS Starting to see the difference now?? I don't think I understood the difference until Mr. Miller made it clear to me. I may have heard it before, but it didn't resonate until he used a jackhammer to penetrate the blood barrier of my brain. I'm fine with the difference, and actually like both. What really may rub some people the wrong way is when one brags about the hunting trophy when it was just a kill. Personally, I really don't care. I'm happy for them if it makes them happy; it takes nothing away from my little trophy. My trophies are mine, and cannot be compared to anyone's, and the reason is the hunt. The hunt is special to me and no one else has my hunt. I'll share the story, but the hunt was lived by me.
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Post by firstwd on Feb 2, 2016 20:32:11 GMT -5
OK, please, no more percentages unless accompanied by the appropriate reference link. It's about 73.6% annoying to about 86.2% of 100% everybody with 10.7% brain capacity.
Hunters are by nature killers. Not all hunts result in a death, not all hunters are concerned with making a kill, but trying to segregate the killers from the true hunters doesn't exactly work. Do some people spend money to "take the easy way out"? Absolutely. If you think about it, every hunter that has put in a food plot, bought high quality optics, or use high performance hunting equipment has spent money to take the easy way out.
The point we are right now is not trying to determine if these places should or shouldn't exist. They already exist. We simply need to decide what government department should be handling their oversight and allowing that department the time and funding to actually do the job.
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