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Post by Sasquatch on Oct 23, 2021 0:51:19 GMT -5
The police are saying there was live rounds in the gun. Setting aside the obvious question as to why there were live rounds within 20 miles of the movie set, do you think Baldwin bears any responsibility? I'm betting he won't get in trouble because it's a movie and the on-set gun expert is supposed to ensure safety.
Lets say we had a Huntingindiana shooting day and Woody was officially in charge of the guns. I shoot one of the other members because the gun I aimed and fired had live rounds in it. My defense is, "It wasn't my job to make sure the gun was empty." Somehow I don't think that would fly.
Do you think Baldwin bears any responsibility?
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Post by deadeer on Oct 23, 2021 1:12:37 GMT -5
I predict nothing will happen to him, and it will be the Republicans fault someway or another.
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Post by duff on Oct 23, 2021 4:46:04 GMT -5
Depends on the facts.
Ultimately he pulled the trigger...so of course he is or should feel responsible. However courts and enforcement may decide differently based on investigation.
Difference in your example and the movie set is the that lets say 200 trigger pulls prior the gun goes bang and that is it.
Without a doubt there are circumstances where the shooter could be criminal or negligent and could be the company running the show.
When a workplace accident happens many times it is the company that takes the beating but there are cases where individuals can be held liable and have criminal charges filed.
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Post by genesis273 on Oct 23, 2021 5:57:30 GMT -5
If I were a betting man, I would say he will not get charged criminally. However, I bet they get him on the civil side.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 23, 2021 6:20:13 GMT -5
Depends on the facts. Ultimately he pulled the trigger...so of course he is or should feel responsible. However courts and enforcement may decide differently based on investigation. Difference in your example and the movie set is the that lets say 200 trigger pulls prior the gun goes bang and that is it. Without a doubt there are circumstances where the shooter could be criminal or negligent and could be the company running the show. When a workplace accident happens many times it is the company that takes the beating but there are cases where individuals can be held liable and have criminal charges filed. Exactly...Huge difference! Of course folks on a hunting site will say "he should have checked himself" that's how its done in the REAL world with proper gun people practice. I wouldn't be surprised that there is actual times when producing a "American Western film" that live rounds are used in some ways...maybe mot!
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Post by jjas on Oct 23, 2021 6:42:39 GMT -5
Based on the way you framed the two responses, I have to say that legally he's not supposed to check the firearm. It's the job of the prop master or gun wrangler to load the gun (with the proper loads), and recheck the gun. Actors aren't supposed to do any of that. They are supposed to be handed the prop gun, shoot the scene and then the prop master is supposed to take the gun from the actor. As long as Baldwin only pointed the gun in the direction he was instructed to by the director I don't see how he gets charged.
Having said that, there is a big question as to how/why the gun was pointed @ the lady who was killed and the director who (according to a few sites I've seen) was hit with a round that went through her first. I've yet to hear why Baldwin would have been pointing the gun towards the two people he shot.
Finally, there is always the civil side of things and regardless of the facts, I'll be surprised if Baldwin isn't sued before the end of next week.
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Post by Sasquatch on Oct 23, 2021 9:15:32 GMT -5
Depends on the facts. Ultimately he pulled the trigger...so of course he is or should feel responsible. However courts and enforcement may decide differently based on investigation. Difference in your example and the movie set is the that lets say 200 trigger pulls prior the gun goes bang and that is it. Without a doubt there are circumstances where the shooter could be criminal or negligent and could be the company running the show. When a workplace accident happens many times it is the company that takes the beating but there are cases where individuals can be held liable and have criminal charges filed. Exactly...Huge difference! Of course folks on a hunting site will say "he should have checked himself" that's how its done in the REAL world with proper gun people practice. I wouldn't be surprised that there is actual times when producing a "American Western film" that live rounds are used in some ways...maybe mot! Of course duff is correct that there is a difference. Even if we were testing blanks in my hypothetical H.I.event and after 200 harmless shots I popped someone, I still think the concept that checking the gun was somebody else's job would only fly on a movie set. The difference is this frankly bizarre destinction society seems to make between being shot dead on a movie lot and- as you put it-- the "REAL" world. Personally I don't think there is any good reason for live rounds being anywhere near a movie set, as it is rarely if ever used for films, at least with actors around.
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Post by duff on Oct 23, 2021 12:21:28 GMT -5
Of course duff is correct.... Just wanted to highlight this. I don't hear this enough! I played paintball 1 time. Never again. I did not like getting shot at or shooting at people. Went against my understanding of gun safety. I doubt those are deadly...but maybe 1 in a million or trillion have a chance to be deadly. Is it the shooter's fault or a freak accident? If the shooter modified the gun or projectiles I could see that person being subject to criminal penalties. I kind of see it the same way on a movie set. How many times do actors use prop guns and point them at a person and pull the trigger? Is the accidental death rate 1 in a million, billion or trillion? What are the circumstances tied to the weapon or stage prop? Was it a live round, if so where did it come from? Was it a dirty prop then who cleans them or tracks how many blanks have been fired? 1,000,000 scenarios to piece together to find out why and how it happened and who was negligent or criminal in the event. Happens all the time in workplace accidents.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 23, 2021 14:21:15 GMT -5
I just want to know all the facts before we start with…”Does Alec Baldwin Bear any responsibility” or “ Do you think Baldwin should get in any trouble”
I Do believe Duff is correct again though 😊Twice in one day! lol
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Post by duff on Oct 23, 2021 14:58:47 GMT -5
I Do believe Duff is correct again though 😊Twice in one day! lol Take that Span870
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Post by freedomhunter on Oct 23, 2021 15:33:55 GMT -5
I just want to know all the facts before we start with…”Does Alec Baldwin Bear any responsibility” or “ Do you think Baldwin should get in any trouble” I Do believe Duff is correct again though 😊Twice in one day! lol Just like a broken clock
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Post by duff on Oct 23, 2021 16:04:48 GMT -5
I just want to know all the facts before we start with…”Does Alec Baldwin Bear any responsibility” or “ Do you think Baldwin should get in any trouble” I Do believe Duff is correct again though 😊Twice in one day! lol Just like a broken clock I will take it when I can get it!
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 23, 2021 17:47:52 GMT -5
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Post by span870 on Oct 23, 2021 17:50:35 GMT -5
I was asked to insure everyone got the $20 Duffs wife sent everyone to say he was right at least once so he would stop pouting around the house and wasting his time fishing not catching anything
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Post by span870 on Oct 23, 2021 17:51:29 GMT -5
Shoot that was supposed to be sent in private message. Anyone able to delete
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 23, 2021 17:54:24 GMT -5
Shoot that was supposed to be sent in private message. Anyone able to delete Out of my hands.. Maybe a Global Moderator can do it?
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Post by span870 on Oct 23, 2021 19:44:25 GMT -5
Shoot that was supposed to be sent in private message. Anyone able to delete Out of my hands.. Maybe a Global Moderator can do it? 😅😅😅😅😅 Global moderator and $1 get ya a senior cup of coffee at McDonald's maybe.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 24, 2021 16:21:44 GMT -5
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Post by jjas on Oct 24, 2021 16:35:58 GMT -5
Sounds like the armorer and first assistant director have some explaining to do.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Oct 24, 2021 17:45:54 GMT -5
If that report is true, then I would say that Baldwin should bear civil responsibility for what happened. Were his actions criminal? It doesn't sound like it. But if he, as producer, hired an incompetent armorer, and also allowed fully functional firearms and live ammo to be stored and used interchangeably with blank rounds, then he was also negligent and should bear the financial loss that is to come with this tragedy.
As far as the armorer and other support people go, they may face other repercussions, but they are already going to be subject to a lifetime of shame and guilt for their ignorance and/or recklessness.
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