|
|
Post by firstwd on Mar 26, 2022 15:23:21 GMT -5
Maybe the in person class should be 12 also then…. I am sure parent involvement happens at the in person class also! The online class you can fail….Never heard of anyone failing the in person class unless they didn’t show up! Maybe they have. The unlimited apprentice lic. Until 18 is really the best option on both sides of the discussion IMO. What about the adult apprentices? My grandson didn't start hunting until he was 30 years old. The law is written to allow 3 adult apprentice licenses. Unfortunately, it isn't 3 years just 3 licenses so that exemption could be used in one year. |
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Mar 26, 2022 15:33:15 GMT -5
Maybe the in person class should be 12 also then…. I am sure parent involvement happens at the in person class also! The online class you can fail….Never heard of anyone failing the in person class unless they didn’t show up! Maybe they have. The unlimited apprentice lic. Until 18 is really the best option on both sides of the discussion IMO. We separate parents from kids during our testing so parents aren't tempted to "help" the kids with the answers. This not only let's instructors know how the kids digested the information, but also let's the instructors know how well they delivered it. People fail the in-person class all the time. It's not our goal but it happens. People fail then go home with no certification or fail then keep taking same test until they pass that day? I have read here on this site and heard from others that when taking the class they are told “everyone will pass today”! I have personally not been at a class and heard it said in person but I don’t see way someone would make up that statement. |
|
|
|
Post by Ahawkeye on Mar 26, 2022 17:06:15 GMT -5
When I took my kids it was a 40 minute trip each way, two days. The instructor was great, but didn’t teach them any more than what I had already taught them. My daughter still has never hunted, but I didn’t want to have to do it again if she decided to. I’m not saying that the hunter ed requirement is bad, but it probably does prevent some kids from hunting. Some parents either don’t have the time, or the desire. My dad is obsessed with fishing, but has never hunted a day in his life. Some parents aren’t willing to go through the process. I was lucky enough that I didn’t have to so I was able to go without it. But yet the parents have days and days on end to spend taking their kids to grammar school and high school sports? I don't see the problem. The problem is where the parents priorities are. How many kids will use the sports in their life when they are adults? I've not yet read this whole thread but I will coment on this. I am a baseball and wrestling coach. I played football, baseball, wrestled, and ran cross country. I do not hit or field baseballs anymore, I do not catch passes or tackle opponents anymore, I do not throw headlocks or try to pin anyone to the mat anymore nor do I run unless something tougher meaner and bigger than I am is chasing me. I can tell you without a doubt that lessons learned while playing these sports has aided me through life much farther than hunting or fishing. I am an avid hunter and wish I had more time to fish. I teach my kids how to hunt, fish, play ball and wrestle. If they don't pick up the outdoors I will be disappointed but without these sports a LOT of life's leassons are lost. I believe sports help with hunting and fishing as well, taking direction, determination and learning from setbacks go hand in hand with sports and the outdoors I will say this though, moderation in all activities is key. Let them play as much as they want as long as the grades are right, take them hunting and fishing when there are opportunities and never miss a chance. Let them be kids while they are kids, one or two sports or even more are going to fall by the wayside eventually take that time and go hunting and fishing, introduce them to it and if they love it they will come back. Stepping off my soap box now. |
|
|
|
Post by Ahawkeye on Mar 26, 2022 17:33:24 GMT -5
Maybe the in person class should be 12 also then…. I am sure parent involvement happens at the in person class also! The online class you can fail….Never heard of anyone failing the in person class unless they didn’t show up! Maybe they have. The unlimited apprentice lic. Until 18 is really the best option on both sides of the discussion IMO. We separate parents from kids during our testing so parents aren't tempted to "help" the kids with the answers. This not only let's instructors know how the kids digested the information, but also let's the instructors know how well they delivered it. People fail the in-person class all the time. It's not our goal but it happens. Again, I am reading along and quoting/commenting things I have experience with. When my father and I took our first trip out west to go elk hunting the hunter ed thing took us by surprise. This was before internet had become manageable and fast. So dad calls the local CO and finds out where the next class is. Dad shows up and the CO does the class (same story as others have posted) dad already knew all this stuff and was just there for the card. When test time comes along the CO recruits dad to "ahem" "help" the younger ones get through the test. "Are you sure the answer isn't letter B. Johnny?" Honest to God truth. I had the opportunity to take a test without taking the class I got one wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by firstwd on Mar 26, 2022 17:34:08 GMT -5
We separate parents from kids during our testing so parents aren't tempted to "help" the kids with the answers. This not only let's instructors know how the kids digested the information, but also let's the instructors know how well they delivered it. People fail the in-person class all the time. It's not our goal but it happens. People fail then go home with no certification or fail then keep taking same test until they pass that day? I have read here on this site and heard from others that when taking the class they are told “everyone will pass today”! I have personally not been at a class and heard it said in person but I don’t see way someone would make up that statement. In my classes, if someone misses the cut off by a handful of questions we'll look through them to determine if it was one section they didn't understand or maybe some of the wording is hard to understand. In those cases we will ask them the questions worded differently to see if they actually know the answers to give them the chance to pass. 8f someone is just way off then they got what they got. Mostly we can tell by the interaction during the class which kids understand the material and which ones are there so dad can have an extra buck tag. Several years ago we had a 19yo get a score in the 30s. This kid knew the material and interacted well. It turned out he couldn't read, at least not well. We read him the test and he got a 98. Intuitive instructors are priceless and we are always looking for more people to volunteer to help us out if anyone is interested. |
|
|
|
Post by firstwd on Mar 26, 2022 17:38:23 GMT -5
We separate parents from kids during our testing so parents aren't tempted to "help" the kids with the answers. This not only let's instructors know how the kids digested the information, but also let's the instructors know how well they delivered it. People fail the in-person class all the time. It's not our goal but it happens. Again, I am reading along and quoting/commenting things I have experience with. When my father and I took our first trip out west to go elk hunting the hunter ed thing took us by surprise. This was before internet had become manageable and fast. So dad calls the local CO and finds out where the next class is. Dad shows up and the CO does the class (same story as others have posted) dad already knew all this stuff and was just there for the card. When test time comes along the CO recruits dad to "ahem" "help" the younger ones get through the test. "Are you sure the answer isn't letter B. Johnny?" Honest to God truth. I had the opportunity to take a test without taking the class I got one wrong. That is definitely not how things are now, at least not how they are supposed to be. If anybody has knowledge of these things happening, please report them so we can clean things up. A few years ago new requirements were instituted for instructors and anything like this should have been/needs to be cleaned up |
|
|
|
Post by deadeer on Mar 26, 2022 18:45:13 GMT -5
I was 100% involved when my boy took his HE class last year. I made sure he paid attention, stayed focused, and understood every minute. I was also involved in the discussion with the CO on many points I felt needed further explanation. As stated earlier in this thread, a LOT of folks just dropped kids off, or one adult chaperoned a large group. My boy is almost 12yo, and I have ABSOLUTELY no worries with him handling a loaded firearm or one within his reach. Not saying he would be proficient in operating every action type, but 100% safe in handling, finger off trigger, pointing in safe direction, etc. Definately a product of home/parent involvement. Question if I may ask.... Do you think he could of made a passing grade without the class from being home taught or would it still took the class to seal the deal on a passing grade? Thanks! If you are referring to just common knowledge, no. Way too many odd issues taught that dont seem relevant to me, but needed for passing grade. I dont see the need to know about old muzzleloaders and different mechanisms that were only in history for a small time and certain things like that. As far as common sense topics, I feel he is well versed and competent. A lot of other kids there didnt know day from night. Some had coloring books, stuffed animals, and blankies for gods sake. No business being there at a very young age or at least too immature to understand what their doing. Now if referring to taking the online class and passing at home, I'm sure he would have been ok, but I liked the interaction with the CO's, as our boy is respectful and understands law enforcement's authority, so I think they gave him good reason to pay attention. All my opinion. Just some things I observed. I give them credit for taking the time to help and better the up and comers. They can only do so much in that short amount of time. |
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Mar 26, 2022 19:01:17 GMT -5
Question if I may ask.... Do you think he could of made a passing grade without the class from being home taught or would it still took the class to seal the deal on a passing grade? Thanks! If you are referring to just common knowledge, no. Way too many odd issues taught that dont seem relevant to me, but needed for passing grade. I dont see the need to know about old muzzleloaders and different mechanisms that were only in history for a small time and certain things like that. As far as common sense topics, I feel he is well versed and competent. A lot of other kids there didnt know day from night. Some had coloring books, stuffed animals, and blankies for gods sake. No business being there at a very young age or at least too immature to understand what their doing. Now if referring to taking the online class and passing at home, I'm sure he would have been ok, but I liked the interaction with the CO's, as our boy is respectful and understands law enforcement's authority, so I think they gave him good reason to pay attention. All my opinion. Just some things I observed. I give them credit for taking the time to help and better the up and comers. They can only do so much in that short amount of time. My question was about taking the in person class....Your first two paragraphs answers my question. Thanks |
|
|
|
Post by deadeer on Mar 26, 2022 20:19:11 GMT -5
We separate parents from kids during our testing so parents aren't tempted to "help" the kids with the answers. This not only let's instructors know how the kids digested the information, but also let's the instructors know how well they delivered it. People fail the in-person class all the time. It's not our goal but it happens. People fail then go home with no certification or fail then keep taking same test until they pass that day? I have read here on this site and heard from others that when taking the class they are told “everyone will pass today”! I have personally not been at a class and heard it said in person but I don’t see way someone would make up that statement. We were told everyone would pass. As stated, they would go over any misses and help them thru it. |
|
|
|
Post by firstwd on Mar 27, 2022 10:50:21 GMT -5
For those saying they were told in class that "everybody would pass" and witnessed actions to ensure it, please provide approximate dates, districts, counties, and instructors names if possible.
|
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Mar 27, 2022 11:24:13 GMT -5
For those saying they were told in class that "everybody would pass" and witnessed actions to ensure it, please provide approximate dates, districts, counties, and instructors names if possible. Couldn’t that information be pulled up with a card #? |
|
|
|
Post by firstwd on Mar 27, 2022 12:14:58 GMT -5
For those saying they were told in class that "everybody would pass" and witnessed actions to ensure it, please provide approximate dates, districts, counties, and instructors names if possible. Couldn’t that information be pulled up with a card #? If within the last 10 years or so when everything went to the new system, yes. It's just a whole lot quicker to determine It's a wide spread issue or concentrated to one district/county/team by answering the questions. What you need to understand is there are two different groups that teach these classes. The DNR is ultimately responsible and why a CO has to be at every class, but the volunteer instructors are trained by and answer to the INHEA as well as the DNR. We both work together but the training is provided by the INHEA, including the class training the COs receive. |
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Mar 27, 2022 13:52:17 GMT -5
Couldn’t that information be pulled up with a card #? If within the last 10 years or so when everything went to the new system, yes. It's just a whole lot quicker to determine It's a wide spread issue or concentrated to one district/county/team by answering the questions. What you need to understand is there are two different groups that teach these classes. The DNR is ultimately responsible and why a CO has to be at every class, but the volunteer instructors are trained by and answer to the INHEA as well as the DNR. We both work together but the training is provided by the INHEA, including the class training the COs receive. What is you actual position within the HE system if you don’t mind me asking? |
|
|
|
Post by firstwd on Mar 27, 2022 14:24:48 GMT -5
If within the last 10 years or so when everything went to the new system, yes. It's just a whole lot quicker to determine It's a wide spread issue or concentrated to one district/county/team by answering the questions. What you need to understand is there are two different groups that teach these classes. The DNR is ultimately responsible and why a CO has to be at every class, but the volunteer instructors are trained by and answer to the INHEA as well as the DNR. We both work together but the training is provided by the INHEA, including the class training the COs receive. What is you actual position within the HE system if you don’t mind me asking? Officially, I am just a veteran instructor. |
|
|
|
Post by deadeer on Mar 27, 2022 16:19:38 GMT -5
There were 3 CO's at my boys class.
About 3/4's of the class was done with the test before my boy was. They were grading as fast as they were turned in, and I never heard of anybody not pass. I made my boy read each question thoroughly so he understood, and told him dont worry about other kids hurrying, it was not a race. Iirc he missed one question. I cant speak for anybody else as we left immediately since we had a long drive after a full weekend.
I was very pleased with our main instructor and the 2 others. I took my class about 35yrs ago, do not remember our guy being as easy going. Although like everything else, things were different back then and not so namby pamby. 😉
|
|
|
|
Post by esshup on Mar 28, 2022 10:49:22 GMT -5
I took my test sometime between 1988 and 1998 out in California.
|
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Mar 28, 2022 13:17:15 GMT -5
I took my test sometime between 1988 and 1998 out in California. Mine was in 1956 at Camp McCoy Wisconsin  . |
|
|
|
Post by tine-n-spur on Mar 28, 2022 15:29:08 GMT -5
Mine was in 1966 Fort Knox Kentucky.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sasquatch on Mar 29, 2022 21:33:08 GMT -5
Yeah, no thanks. This is like a lot of those foot in the door/slippery slope deals. Once you've got the government setting up qualifications for something, there is nothing stopping them from moving the goalposts whenever they want. "proficiency standards" could very easily be modified until they are impossible to meet. Or they can make it hard to get to the test, or make it at a hard time of the day or week. Qualifying could be made prohibitively expensive. Too easy to make "qualifying" into a de-facto ban. Also, _____ Europe.  |
|
|
|
Post by harmonist34 on Mar 29, 2022 21:42:52 GMT -5
I like the concept, but don’t think it’s practical to implement. Would want to see investment in training and shooting practice facilities alongside a requirement like this to ensure it doesn’t restrict access too much and that the desired outcome is achieved.
|
|
