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Post by jb1069 on Nov 20, 2012 10:49:11 GMT -5
I would like to know who would support one season with any legal weapon and why or why not? I would especially like the input of people who use a crossbow or who fought hard to have crossbows included into archery. Thanks
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 20, 2012 10:52:42 GMT -5
I would like to know who would support one season with any legal weapon and why or why not? I would especially like the input of people who use a crossbow or who fought hard to have crossbows included into archery. Thanks Firearms are firearms and archery is archery and never the twain shall meet. Archers can hunt the gun season with archery equipment BUT 95% of them don't. They become gun hunters... |
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Post by swilk on Nov 20, 2012 10:55:43 GMT -5
And this is where the line would be drawn .....
If the bag limits would be adjusted accordingly there is no "biological" reason not to do something like that ..... but most would not "want" it. Including me.
Im a leave well enough alone kind of guy.
I was against PCR's. I was against xbows.
Didnt lobby against either one .... just didnt want them. I was also honest enough to admit that it was nothing more than a "want" ... .
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Post by jb1069 on Nov 20, 2012 10:58:32 GMT -5
But why? Isnt the argument that everyone has the right to hunt with what they choose? Not to take away from anyone? If a person isnt allowed to use a gun when he wants to isnt he being put in the same position that the crossbow users where in before the law was changed? What would be a good biological reason not to allow a gun in October other than the law says thats when we use bows?
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Post by huntin4ever on Nov 20, 2012 11:12:41 GMT -5
One good reason is foliage. During early archery there is a lot of green still hanging around in the woods. That can make knowing 100% without a shadow of doubt that the area behind your target is clear impossible. This alone is a major safety issue with the number of gun hunters there are... For this reason I never see the seasons change.
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Post by swilk on Nov 20, 2012 11:18:23 GMT -5
So then the youth hunt should not allow firearms? If safety is a factor we for sure dont want our youth put in harms way.
Personally, I dont see safety as an issue.
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Post by jb1069 on Nov 20, 2012 11:19:04 GMT -5
Good point and I agree with you. But I dont think the seasons were determined by this. I think the seasons were put into place when the DNR thought the best time(or best chance) for people to kill. Then with the attraction of bow hunting they added a season that wouldnt greatly effect the herd but would still sell tags.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 11:21:51 GMT -5
Seasons are set by the game manager, in this case the DNR to achieve certain goals. They do that pretty well with the established seasons, as they are. Crossbow was added do to a need to boast hunter numbers somewhat and also to reduce deer numbers somewhat. Some keep saying there was no biological need, but there was/is. Hunter numbers was slowly dropping, and the herd was going up somewhat, Adding another choice that might help both slides made sense and is part of the tool box items available to make sure harvest goals are met.
There is no data available to support a 5 month any weapon season in the midwest. Deep south and south easst coatal states can not keep deer herds balanced, midwest states can.
I do not agree that foilage presents a safety challenge, as that is when the powers to be put the youth season, mostly without incident.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 11:28:59 GMT -5
Nope. I think that would be ridiculous. I think it is fine the way it is. You open up gun season throughout and you would have to shorten the overall hunting season considerably, or else reduce bag limits drastically. The deer herd could not withstand a modern gun season for much longer than a couple weeks.
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Post by jb1069 on Nov 20, 2012 11:29:54 GMT -5
Is there data saying it couldnt handle it? A simple adjustment in time or tag limit would balance it out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 11:31:27 GMT -5
It could stand it, but take a major overhaul to dertermine how many more bucks would be killed, and how many less does the county limits would be adjusted to. Overall, it could lower oppurtunity instead of increase it?
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Post by jb1069 on Nov 20, 2012 11:32:08 GMT -5
Meta
Ridiculous as the bowhunters stating the same logic to adding crossbows to archery.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 11:42:18 GMT -5
Yes! Crossbows don't increase the deadly range limits by more than about 10 yards in most situations, at best. Plus, a crossbow is more of a one shot only weapon than a verical bow, so the increase in harvest from crossbows would be negligable at best. Obviously, modern guns have a much longer range and there are many more hunters who use them. One only need look at the harvest numbers by weapon to see that. Smartest thing to do is to leave it be, as is.
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Post by jb1069 on Nov 20, 2012 11:43:12 GMT -5
Timex, I agree 100% on loss of opportunity except for the opportunity of the guy wanting to use a gun in bow season. He does not have that option now. If that group pushed as hard as the crossbow crowd did to get that time of year would it be supported equally as it was crossbows? Crossbows were given a late season but that wasnt what they wanted, They wanted October. Will the crossbow crowd support the next group that wants a different time of year? the way it is looking they wont. They are no different than the bow hunters. They want to protect that time of year for themselves also.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 11:51:15 GMT -5
For one, and where your totally wrong on is the crossbow crowd pushing hard. It was more of a pull than a push. DNRs all across the country are pulling for crossbows to gain more hunters and retain older hunters, and enlist younger hunters. Adding crossbows to arcery season was a slight adjustment to the season structure. Adding firearms of any sort is a lot more. At some point, that could be an option. Probably as a weekend ML hunt for starters. I doubt you'll see any recomendation to bring firearms into the full month of Oct. anytime soon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 11:52:51 GMT -5
There may be some out there who exist, but I have never heard a gun hunter complain that they want to hunt the bow season. The only time I have heard that mentioned is when bowhunters want to push the gun hunters back into December so they can't get a sniff of the rutting action. Then the gun hunters will push back some...but most gun hunters understand that there is only so much gun hunting impact that the deer herd could handle. There is no comparisson between modern guns impact and crossbow impact.
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Post by swilk on Nov 20, 2012 12:26:15 GMT -5
You need to talk to more gun hunters .... on the years when gun season comes in like it did this year (later than mid november) I hear a lot of guys say they wish it was in earlier.
The simplest way to view this is ..... the state currently has "X" number of deer (a number that has never been identified). The state wants "Y" number of deer (another number which has never been identified).
If we went strictly with the "biological" way of doing things the DNR would identify each number, subtract "Y" from "X" and cut the hunters loose with any weapon until that magical number is reached and then the season would be cut off.
The next year we would do it all again.
That is not the way the DNR does business ..... they can still manage the deer herd while making most of the decisions on how to do that based on what hunters want.
There is that word again ..... want.
Such a simple word .... yet so hard for some to say.
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Post by charmerbaits on Nov 20, 2012 12:35:20 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of one big season but I think Indiana needs to get rid of the multiple different deer license/tags and just have one deer tag that can be used for all seasons. KY has had this for years and it's much easier to understand. You buy your deer tags, which comes with 1 buck tag and 1 doe tag and you can use them any season.
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Post by swilk on Nov 20, 2012 12:40:18 GMT -5
I think Indiana did that this year .... so your "want" has been granted.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 12:50:25 GMT -5
You need to talk to more gun hunters .... on the years when gun season comes in like it did this year (later than mid november) I hear a lot of guys say they wish it was in earlier. The simplest way to view this is ..... the state currently has "X" number of deer (a number that has never been identified). The state wants "Y" number of deer (another number which has never been identified). If we went strictly with the "biological" way of doing things the DNR would identify each number, subtract "Y" from "X" and cut the hunters loose with any weapon until that magical number is reached and then the season would be cut off. The next year we would do it all again. That is not the way the DNR does business ..... they can still manage the deer herd while making most of the decisions on how to do that based on what hunters want. There is that word again ..... want. Such a simple word .... yet so hard for some to say. The part you fail to mention is the DNR does have those goals, but they aren't the only goals they have. They also have to find a balnce in recreation, finances, hunter staisfaction and landowner satisfaction as well as non-hunters and traffic concerns. It's not even close to being balance solely on "want". |
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