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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 11, 2014 9:48:15 GMT -5
Seems to me as long as the whole "forgiven" thing works out a person can do as many un-Christian things as they want over the course of their lives. Unless of course the whole forgiveness thing was just mans way of attempting to circumvent Gods system and God will still be there to judge them in the end. In which case we get back to the whole "not everyone who thinks they are getting in is really getting in" thing. I would not want to be one that "plays games" with God. He is all knowing..
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Post by swilk on Jul 11, 2014 9:52:40 GMT -5
Depending on whose interpretation of things you are going by, there is not a man or woman who has lived that is getting (gotten) in.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:56:33 GMT -5
That's what the grace of the cross is all about. All have sinned and fallen short. No one is good enough, no, not one! Now, apply logic to that.
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Post by swilk on Jul 11, 2014 9:59:10 GMT -5
You missed a key part (about my circle that is).... the part where one man tells another man that he isnt good enough while forgetting that he, himself has not been good enough either.
Leave it to God. Just live your life and leave it to God.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 10:08:00 GMT -5
In the end, that's what it comes down to, isn't it? None of us can control anything else.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 11, 2014 11:01:08 GMT -5
My turn! My turn! LOL
Is Mr. SWILK at it again?
I think I like him, because if God hadn't called me as such a young age, I'll probably be a lot like him.
Yes, yes, yes; Sin is common with all mankind. You name it and a Christian has done it and some still do. When I was a child, I acted as a child ...and every phase along the way. Young, or immature, Christians may not look much different than the world. Granted, some Christians stay young or immature all their lives. It shouldn't shock us that the world can say anything about us.
Hate is a stong word, and I'm sure that I've used it, but the only application that it has in me now is that I hate MY sin. This is my focus. I don't hate Obama or any of the other terrorist. LOL How can I hate God's instrument to bring down America???
Seriously, Christians shouldn't even hate their enemies, nor rejoice when they meet their demise. We should rather that they come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. A beautiful thing is that even if we do hate Obama, it doesn't make us not a Christian. We ARE wretched human sinners still existing in the flesh, but covered in perfection of the shed blood of Jesus. Oh that we would represent Christ as He represented the Father.
Here's the important thing to think about: Don't look at me, look at Christ. He offered the sacrifice and set the example. I will fall short in every way.
God loves you swilk, and has a place for you. I'd love to meet you some day to talk about it.
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Post by swilk on Jul 11, 2014 11:23:51 GMT -5
So you disagree with Woody on the hate thing..... which of you are right?
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Post by drs on Jul 11, 2014 13:21:55 GMT -5
".......President Barack Obama’s approval rating is higher among Muslims than any other religious group, a new poll says......"
Gee, what a shock!!
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 11, 2014 14:54:32 GMT -5
So you disagree with Woody on the hate thing..... which of you are right? Well sir, I'll have to read what he wrote, but I'm guessing it has something to do with hate. I doubt that Woody and I disagree on much of anything, and if so it's just because he's more mature than me ...older. ;-) I was surprised when I read that God hated someone, yes a man. Do you know who that was? ...Not Judas. It's old testament stuff; look it up and tell me what you think.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 11, 2014 15:22:23 GMT -5
There must be varying degrees .... or a whole lot who claim to be really arent. This is a very good point swilk. I think you are curious and this is a wonderful thing. It's God who will spark the curiosity in you and wooooooo you into a relationship with Him. Keep in mind that some things require the Spirit to understand, and some things are too complex to understand and some things it doesn't matter a hoot when it comes to one's eternal salvation. I can sit here and write a book, but if you ever really want to talk about it, I'll meet you anywhere. I haven't seen anything that Woody and I disagree on, and even if we did, it wouldn't have anything to do with going to heaven. Let me clarify a couple things that I've said. When I was 6 years old, I couldn't understand things that I did when I was in high school. Some Christian topics do require maturity to understand. However, anyone who wants to know how to have eternal life with Christ can understand it. Woody said it well when he quoted Matthew chapter 7. There will be MANY who think they are, but will be rejected. This is scary, but I have NO fear on where I will spend eternity, and it has nothing to do with all my good works, who I love and who I hate or what I'm going to do tomorrow. Of course, I don't hate anyone, even the person who molested my 5 year old daughter. This my friend is fruit of the Spirit. If one is a Christian, they will bear fruit ...good fruit. I was a viciously ruthless protector of any I loved, so for me to not get my hands on the perpetrator was God and God alone. Self control is a fruit of God's Spirit. If you really want to know, seek Him and you'll find Him.
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Post by swilk on Jul 11, 2014 15:49:07 GMT -5
Woody said if a person hates they are not a Christian.... you said even if they hated they still were.
Who is correct?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 15:57:49 GMT -5
Hating people is a sin. Christians, like ALL people, sin. The difference is, since Christians accept the grace of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, they can confess their sin to God, repent (turn from it) and be forgiven. Those last two parts are crucial to the equation though.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 11, 2014 16:59:12 GMT -5
Woody said if a person hates they are not a Christian.... you said even if they hated they still were. Who is correct? It would be a very rare occurrence for a mature Christian to say it, but it wouldn't surprise me coming from a young one. So No, saying that one hates another would not make one lose their salvation. What Woody is saying is that we wouldn't expect a Christian to say it. It would be an indicator that one is either young in faith, not a Christian or a big slip of the tongue. I'm going to start praying for you swilk; I apologize for not doing it before now. There's a place for you in His kingdom and His church. You can talk to me anytime.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 11, 2014 17:01:40 GMT -5
I don't hate Obama or any of the other terrorist. LOL How can I hate God's instrument to bring down America??? I'm shocked that no one quoted me on this one. LOL I had to do it myself. I thought it was pretty funny.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 12, 2014 5:28:44 GMT -5
Hate is a 180 from what God commands us to do – Love our neighbors. It’s a simple and well known commandment. One that should be easily understood and practiced by any Christian. Personally I believe that hate of an individual is an ongoing sin. It will stay with you and eat at you as long as you hate. Once you hate a person that sin is etched in your heart and the only way to remove it is ask for forgiveness and don’t hate anymore. There is no room for hate of an individual and love for God in my heart. They are incompatible to me.
I would not want to die with hate in my heart and face my Maker.
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Post by swilk on Jul 12, 2014 5:49:52 GMT -5
So..... if you hate and have not asked for forgiveness then you are not a Christian.
Woody is right and Jon is wrong?
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 12, 2014 12:04:45 GMT -5
So..... if you hate and have not asked for forgiveness then you are not a Christian. Woody is right and Jon is wrong? Little buddy, I know you are smarter than this. Woody and I are saying the same thing, but you'll never understand it without the Spirit in you, or you're just having fun with us. It's what God hated in Esau that Woody, me and all who have his Spirit hates. We hate sin, especially our own, and any manifestation of it. No good comes from hate or any sin. Hate is a term that can be used loosely as love. I say that I love diet Coke, my wife, daughter and my job, but obviously they are all different. Yes, I hate what Obama represents, but the man as any creation of God, I love. ...even you. :-) It's the Spirit in us that makes us this way, and the world will never understand it. There are many theological differences in the church, but not about hate. Even if you are just having fun with us, this is good. Any opportunity to express God's love, the good news of His gift and His soon return is good. His word will never turn up void. You'll start feeling God pursuing you and you'll get to a point where you'll cry out for Him and He will be there. This is not what Jon Snow says. He said it.
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Post by swilk on Jul 12, 2014 13:05:56 GMT -5
Same thing? Interesting.....one said it does and the other says it does not. Seems opposite to me.....I guess anything is possible when it comes to religion.
With that I shall conclude my inquiry.....
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Post by ridgerunner on Jul 13, 2014 8:20:47 GMT -5
Would a Christian, who claims another is not a Christian without proof, still be considered a Christian? Serious question. Just trying to get a hold on what, other than hate, is enough to not be one any longer. Would a man, who claims one is a Christian without proof, still be considered a man? You have no proof Obama is a Christian.
" A man shall be known be the fruits of his labor." If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck..probably a duck.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Jul 13, 2014 8:39:59 GMT -5
" A man shall be known be the fruits of his labor." If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck..probably a duck.
It is true. As a man thinks in his heart so is he. What's inside comes out. Oh, we have done many things that we're not proud of, but our character will show through. However, I have a long time friend who is not a Christian, but a good friend indeed. He is a good man in the eyes of men. He once told me that he was a Christian. He was an Elder in his church for 9 years and the head of all their finances. He sounds like a Christian, but he is not. Oh, Jon Snow how can you judge this good man? I just discern; God does the judging ...actually Jesus. So how do I know that my friend is not a Christian? This was a simple one really. He believed in a superior being, maybe aliens, but he did not believe that Jesus was and is the one and only Son of the living God, savior to the world who's shed blood justifies the wretched men to be righteous as He is Holy if we believe and accept the gift. My friend is not a Christian.
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